howard - i agree with you that for those of you in the top 10% with 1000+ followers, this search function offers tremendous utility. But, what about the rest of us, with fewer than 50-100 followers? it's much tougher for us to utilize this particular advantage of twitter. do you see the 80/20 rule shifting in the future? maybe there's a business model here somewhere . . .
Attitrade
· 4 months ago
I don't know if the top is in, but severe storms (tornado) in Dallas last night and EVERY weatherman repeatedly threw out their twitter name to get updates. I guess if I were hunkered down in a closet with a mattress over my head checking tweets for an approaching tornado that that would be damn near a top.
Could trend sideways for a while then make a break to the upside again.
Jason Wood
· 4 months ago
Howard, you're certainly right that there's real opportunity. Funny to think that we're bringing the humanity back into search after trying so hard to eschew it over the last decade.
But I do think there's a disconnect between popular Twitter users and most; not dissimilar to what we saw in the blogosphere. Lots of people write AWESOME blogs about subjects but struggle to get more than a few thousand readers because first mover advantage mattered. There are exceptions, but I know countless folks who started blogs and now gave them up because they can't find an audience.
With the example you posted on the restaurants, the thing you have to remember is you have THOUSANDS of followers. When you Tweet a request like that, you stand an excellent chance of having someone with the requisite knowledge in your Followers list, and thus they respond in kind.
But what about all these people with 10-20-30 followers? They ask that question and NO WAY do they get an answer that's remotely comparable to what Yelp or a Google search would yield.
My point being is, yes, there's opportunity. But there are also hurdles that power users such as yourself [and admittedly myself, too] don't have to deal with because we have breadth of audience.
howardlindzon
· 4 months ago
my point and I guess i wasnot clear is the spoils will go to the poeople that help the masses with 10 followers extract the same value as i do with 7000:
'All I can now think about is how to transfer the feedback I got from my 7,000 plus followers wiling to help me to the ‘typical’ Twitter user with 10 followers.'
Peter Cranstone
· 4 months ago
Here's Twitter's problem... in 3 minutes you had 20 recommendations. Friction to obtain those answers = zero. Cost to obtain those answers = zero. Value generated to you = Priceless... cost to Twitter $$$ to support all of that. Every time they give you value they lose money, and they repeat that on every single tweat. It's simply not a sustainable business model.
You say that you would pay for the service... ok, how much would you, how would you pay, to whom would you pay, how long would you pay. Lots of questions unanswered. And therein lies the rub. It's all about value given and received. The second you don't get value you'll be like your son and your loyalty will switch with a click to the next "percieved" value provider.
You have no idea whether the Twitter top is in, and the kicker is - nor does anyone else.
Cheers,
Peter
howardlindzon
· 4 months ago
Thx peter. You nailed me but its just a blog post.
I would pay per request or monthly.
I am in agrremment re twitter having difficulty monetizing but the platform in some form wikl continue to be viral and cost structures of services low enouhgh and scalable enough to make biznesses
Brian
· 4 months ago
It sounds like a lot of what you're talking about is like that KGB service. I've never used it, but they claim to be able to answer questions via SMS text message.
But, it's gonna be nearly impossible to get real (and useful) humans to answer your questions in real time in any kind of scalable model. Just think about the fraction of people on Planet Earth that are worth your time in general.
As for the 10% of people making most of the tweets, if more than 10% of the world's population was responsible for the worthwhile music/books/movies (and anything else worth our time), I'd be surprised.
howardlindzon
· 4 months ago
Thx for info.
The answers would be stored obviously based on usability. Like the 20 middle east rest in manhattan etc...
rob
· 4 months ago
call me still skeptical but i've yet to see the value of twitter for most internet business applications.
while stocktwits is an excellent implementation of the twitter platform it takes advantage of the unique needs of traders to access timely information from qualified leads. this group of people sees the value in this offer and subscribes to stocktwits accordingly.
however very few businesses operate in such a time sensitive world. for most people the information is out there for free. i'd like to think that access to premium content would be a viable business model, but i look at newspapers and shake my head. for niche content, how can i tell if somone's tweets/links are informative and unique enough to warrant a subscription?
howardlindzon
· 4 months ago
Good points and I have lobbied the vc's hard for buying stocktwits because we make twitter better and yahoo finance is a killer biz driver of yahoo as an early example in the web space
There are many advertising and contextual ways brands can work intop the stocktwits strean. tove out licensing the sytream
Twitter and other niched should develop the same opps over time.
We will see
ivanhoff
· 4 months ago
There is no doubt that having a good sized, trusted follow-ship on twitter represents an amazing leverage. The point is that very few people have it. How could the rest of us take advantage of the collective mind power and unique skills of the twitter universe? This is a potential decision: Get ready to pay. Have a question in mind and look for an answer. Offer certain amount (10 cents, 10 dollars..) to the twitterer that quickly and properly answers your question. You have to choose the best answer. There has to be a special web platform created for that and that platform could be divided into multiple categories: law, markets, tour guiding, etc.. The issue of trust stays, but the involvement of some type of reward – monetary or psychological will always increase the odds of getting a better answer. On twitter it doesn’t matter what question is asked. It does matter who asks the question.
I am not sure I am bullish on the company Twitter, but I am most definitely bullish on some third party Twitter's applications. And the best ones are yet to come.
howardlindzon
· 4 months ago
Exactly as usual
ZenProfit
· 4 months ago
Howard:
Here is the complete post that Greg's blog was just a part of:
Reading some of the comments suggests less-than-euphoric outlooks for Twitter.
BTW: What would happen to StockTwits if Twitter implodes and the money runs out?
howardlindzon
· 4 months ago
We move in with u. Be prepared :)
We have a plan unveiled shortly that solves yoiur concern re twitter relisance
chartsandcoffee
· 4 months ago
With the size of Stocktwits (compared to Twitter), I don't think it would be very difficult to create a Twitter like system. Obviously having Twitter augments Stocktwits, but it wouldn't be too hard to have a back up system or a redundant system in place.
One month does not a trend make. If twitter added no new users it would still be successful
In fact, maybe that's what they should do for a few moinths....make you just watch from outside :)
TedHoward
· 4 months ago
Didn't say I agree with the short term analysis, just that I enjoyed it and it reminds me of the 'shark fin'. It also reminds me of the "Bing is beating Yahoo" meme that was based on a sample population of size 1. I personally don't understand Twitter usage or the N-times Facebook updating users. However, I don't predict things or assume that others' behavior is like mine. If I did, I would be forced to say that professional sports is a destined for bankruptcy and stadiums will be empty.
howardlindzon
· 4 months ago
I like u
howardlindzon
· 4 months ago
Sports is mystifying other than television
gbattle
· 4 months ago
Thanks for the shout-out Howard. We'll have fun next week for sure.
The pattern on Twitter is no different than every other content platform. On YouTube, over 90% of the videos come from a mere 2-3% of users. On Digg, 70% of the front page is from the top 100 submitters. This pattern applies to all media that scales - print, television, internet, etc. The only difference is the democratization of access on the web. The fact that most people are consumers/lurkers shouldn't be surprising. Everyone isn't popular, by definition, but human nature dictates a desire to be. This is why 90% of male Parisians believe they are above average lovers - there is a disconnect between our perceptions and reality, which is really the center of this discussion. How do we get beyond the useless economics of following/followers and satisfy the wellspring of latent narcissism in everyone? Access flattens the popularity curve. I may not BE Shaq, Diddy or Howard, but I gain a level of psychic enrgy from being connected to them. The insider vs. the outsider. I don't need to have followers to benefit from Twitter, I need only follow/select the circles of influence that give me joy.
The next "wave" on Twitter won't be giving more people followers. Rather, it will be segregating the followers - who are the elite within Howard's 7000 and how can he reward them more than the others. This area is ripe for innovation, and people will pay up for access and membership. Get ready for VIP treatment people, it's coming ...
howardlindzon
· 4 months ago
Will reblog tonight. Genius. Stop sharing ideas.
gbattle
· 4 months ago
When you give me a reason to stop, I will. ;-) I firmly believe that the truth is more often seen than heard, so, in that spirit, I'd much rather just do it and explain it to everyone afterward.
howardlindzon
· 4 months ago
Seriously....no one listens anyways
fendien
· 4 months ago
Doesn't this in a way go back to the twitter search problem. where many people have proposed having "Reputation" as a weighting factor for relevancy of a person's tweets..but how to define reputation (# followers, # times retweeted, # tweets, etc) has still not been locked down.
The problem I see is not just how do I benefit from my smaller follower base in an equal way as you with your several thousand followers, but how to determine the relevancy. Yes, if I'm down in the Village and tweet for a good response, even if I got 30 responses, how do i know who to *trust.* After all, you say:
"Within 3 minutes I had 20 recommendations. I now have 10 plus Middle Eastern places to try from people I trust in Brooklyn, West Village etc…"
This is something that a site like Yelp can be helpful for, because I can quickly skim other reviews to get a general vibe, and if someone's review is particularly pointed i can check out their other reviews to see what their general style seems to entail. so yes it takes a bit more work, but i can get more of a sense of the recommendation, as opposed to listening to stranger X.
howardlindzon
· 4 months ago
I guess I need to try yelp's iphone app. Party pooper
RacerRick
· 4 months ago
We've slowly been getting traction on our twitterbot @mkefood (www.mkefood.net).
Our stumbling block is that new users to Twitter seem to be more listeners than participants. The older users of Twitter are the only ones who contribute to @mkefood and offer suggestions.
However, we've had a few people visit milwaukee and ask for restaurant suggestions and get an answer back quickly.
So it's not the technology that's the problem with creating a community - it's inspiring people to participate.
All Comments
SUPER CHIRP!
tweets so good they're worth paying for
http://superchirp.com/
i agree with you that for those of you in the top 10% with 1000+ followers, this search function offers tremendous utility. But, what about the rest of us, with fewer than 50-100 followers? it's much tougher for us to utilize this particular advantage of twitter. do you see the 80/20 rule shifting in the future? maybe there's a business model here somewhere . . .
Could trend sideways for a while then make a break to the upside again.
But I do think there's a disconnect between popular Twitter users and most; not dissimilar to what we saw in the blogosphere. Lots of people write AWESOME blogs about subjects but struggle to get more than a few thousand readers because first mover advantage mattered. There are exceptions, but I know countless folks who started blogs and now gave them up because they can't find an audience.
With the example you posted on the restaurants, the thing you have to remember is you have THOUSANDS of followers. When you Tweet a request like that, you stand an excellent chance of having someone with the requisite knowledge in your Followers list, and thus they respond in kind.
But what about all these people with 10-20-30 followers? They ask that question and NO WAY do they get an answer that's remotely comparable to what Yelp or a Google search would yield.
My point being is, yes, there's opportunity. But there are also hurdles that power users such as yourself [and admittedly myself, too] don't have to deal with because we have breadth of audience.
'All I can now think about is how to transfer the feedback I got from my 7,000 plus followers wiling to help me to the ‘typical’ Twitter user with 10 followers.'
You say that you would pay for the service... ok, how much would you, how would you pay, to whom would you pay, how long would you pay. Lots of questions unanswered. And therein lies the rub. It's all about value given and received. The second you don't get value you'll be like your son and your loyalty will switch with a click to the next "percieved" value provider.
You have no idea whether the Twitter top is in, and the kicker is - nor does anyone else.
Cheers,
Peter
I would pay per request or monthly.
I am in agrremment re twitter having difficulty monetizing but the platform in some form wikl continue to be viral and cost structures of services low enouhgh and scalable enough to make biznesses
But, it's gonna be nearly impossible to get real (and useful) humans to answer your questions in real time in any kind of scalable model. Just think about the fraction of people on Planet Earth that are worth your time in general.
As for the 10% of people making most of the tweets, if more than 10% of the world's population was responsible for the worthwhile music/books/movies (and anything else worth our time), I'd be surprised.
The answers would be stored obviously based on usability. Like the 20 middle east rest in manhattan etc...
while stocktwits is an excellent implementation of the twitter platform it takes advantage of the unique needs of traders to access timely information from qualified leads. this group of people sees the value in this offer and subscribes to stocktwits accordingly.
however very few businesses operate in such a time sensitive world. for most people the information is out there for free. i'd like to think that access to premium content would be a viable business model, but i look at newspapers and shake my head. for niche content, how can i tell if somone's tweets/links are informative and unique enough to warrant a subscription?
There are many advertising and contextual ways brands can work intop the stocktwits strean. tove out licensing the sytream
Twitter and other niched should develop the same opps over time.
We will see
I am not sure I am bullish on the company Twitter, but I am most definitely bullish on some third party Twitter's applications. And the best ones are yet to come.
Here is the complete post that Greg's blog was just a part of:
http://tinyurl.com/nm9uex
Reading some of the comments suggests less-than-euphoric outlooks for Twitter.
BTW: What would happen to StockTwits if Twitter implodes and the money runs out?
We have a plan unveiled shortly that solves yoiur concern re twitter relisance
It reminds me of Andrew Chen's 'shark fin' traffic curve: http://andrewchenblog.com/2008/03/05/facebook-v...
In fact, maybe that's what they should do for a few moinths....make you just watch from outside :)
I personally don't understand Twitter usage or the N-times Facebook updating users. However, I don't predict things or assume that others' behavior is like mine. If I did, I would be forced to say that professional sports is a destined for bankruptcy and stadiums will be empty.
The pattern on Twitter is no different than every other content platform. On YouTube, over 90% of the videos come from a mere 2-3% of users. On Digg, 70% of the front page is from the top 100 submitters. This pattern applies to all media that scales - print, television, internet, etc. The only difference is the democratization of access on the web. The fact that most people are consumers/lurkers shouldn't be surprising. Everyone isn't popular, by definition, but human nature dictates a desire to be. This is why 90% of male Parisians believe they are above average lovers - there is a disconnect between our perceptions and reality, which is really the center of this discussion. How do we get beyond the useless economics of following/followers and satisfy the wellspring of latent narcissism in everyone? Access flattens the popularity curve. I may not BE Shaq, Diddy or Howard, but I gain a level of psychic enrgy from being connected to them. The insider vs. the outsider. I don't need to have followers to benefit from Twitter, I need only follow/select the circles of influence that give me joy.
The next "wave" on Twitter won't be giving more people followers. Rather, it will be segregating the followers - who are the elite within Howard's 7000 and how can he reward them more than the others. This area is ripe for innovation, and people will pay up for access and membership. Get ready for VIP treatment people, it's coming ...
The problem I see is not just how do I benefit from my smaller follower base in an equal way as you with your several thousand followers, but how to determine the relevancy. Yes, if I'm down in the Village and tweet for a good response, even if I got 30 responses, how do i know who to *trust.* After all, you say:
"Within 3 minutes I had 20 recommendations. I now have 10 plus Middle Eastern places to try from people I trust in Brooklyn, West Village etc…"
This is something that a site like Yelp can be helpful for, because I can quickly skim other reviews to get a general vibe, and if someone's review is particularly pointed i can check out their other reviews to see what their general style seems to entail. so yes it takes a bit more work, but i can get more of a sense of the recommendation, as opposed to listening to stranger X.
Our stumbling block is that new users to Twitter seem to be more listeners than participants. The older users of Twitter are the only ones who contribute to @mkefood and offer suggestions.
However, we've had a few people visit milwaukee and ask for restaurant suggestions and get an answer back quickly.
So it's not the technology that's the problem with creating a community - it's inspiring people to participate.
http://tinyurl.com/nxlq84
http://tinyurl.com/ll9wdz